Some of the conversations between Marty Kotis and George Hartzman on his free water sewer outside Greensboro's city limits

Marty Kotis, Nancy Hoffman and Item 27 on Tuesday's City Council Agenda

http://hartzman.blogspot.com/2013/08/marty-kotis-nancy-hoffman-and-item-27.html
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George Hartzman; Perfectly legal and simultaneously wrong


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Marty Kotis; "You do realize that the expected property taxes at that interchange when complete will be somewhere between 200-500k/yr. [GH; If it ever gets built, and if it does, someone else down the road would have lost business to Marty via his control over our local government]

...do you think we should be able to flush a toilet at the interchange of Wendover and the Outer Loop?

How about in Forest Oaks or the Cardinal?

Municipal sewer has been around since 2600BC.

Amanda - how much money does the News & Record receive from municipalities and the State for public notices in the paper? And where do you stand on that issue?

George - was Forest Oaks, Cardinal, S Elm, Bryan/New Garden, etc, etc, etc?
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George Hartzman; "I would like Greensboro's City Council to approve the following language to prohibit the appearance of unethical behavior;

"Current Greensboro City Council Members and Candidates for local elected office are prohibited from accepting campaign contributions from board members of organizations, developers, contractors or their lawyers or agents who have or may receive taxpayer funded contracts or monies, for 12 months before and after doing business with Greensboro’s government."

The property wasn't in the city yet.

"the reimbursement is only after the property is annexed."

So if the property was never annexed, Marty wouldn't have received the benefit.

The trick is to get the property annexed, to get the benefit.

Why does the Agenda attachment say "once it is annexed into the city"?

Why does it say "contingent on the site being successfully annexed into the city"?

My argument is for businesses looking to relocate or expand are presented with an even playing field, which we don't have. This deal is a great example, which you chose to bring before council right before an election, while handing out freebees and cash to those who voted you the money at the same time.

A self inflicted wound in my view.

How long before your properties are littered with the campaign signs of those who just voted you more than $1 million in benefits this year?
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Marty Kotis; The level playing field is that properties that are to be annexed into the city receive the primary benefit that the city has - water and sewer.

If the city isn't offering water and sewer, why would anyone ever be annexed?

In Summerfield at our Food Lion and Walgreens we use well water and a constructed wetland (and Greensboro receives no tax benefit).

Your arguments are for a no growth approach to the city.
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George Hartzman; From the agenda attachment in bold type; "Please note that this development is speculative and is not substantiated by firm commitments at this time. Actual development amounts and timing are completely dependent on market demand and attraction of commitments from retailers"

The above means everyone else just paid for your speculative investment, with the help of your purchased politicians, in front of other less connected businesses.

Congratulations.
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Marty Kotis; I'm a major employer and investor in Greensboro. I pay almost $1 mil per year in property taxes locally.

[GH; $1,000,000 in Kotis property taxes - the $312,000 and the end of Madison Avenue = Marty will pay 1/2 the taxes of everyone else this year]

Katei Cranford on Crony Capitalism in Greensboro



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George Hartzman; Ideology wise, why support a conservative like Tony and Nancy V and Yvonne at the same time?

Why is the water sewer labeled "an economic development grant"?

Why does the Agenda attachment say "once it is annexed into the city"?

Why does it say "contingent on the site being successfully annexed into the city"?

Why would a standard water and sewer deal be "required to create at least 7 new full-time jobs by August 20, 2016"?

Why would it say the development is speculative?

Why aren't any retailers signed up yet?

Why would a standard water and sewer deal have a claw-back provision?

What is the expected pay for the "at least 7 full time equivalent positions"?

Some Kotis campaign contributions;

ZACK MATHENY William Kotis Kotis Properties
ZACK MATHENY William Kotis Kotis Properties
ROBBIE PERKINS William L Cassell CEO
ROBBIE PERKINS William L. Cassell WLC LLC
JIM KEE William M Kotis III Kotis Developer
NANCY VAUGHAN William M. Kotis Kotis Properties
ROBBIE PERKINS William M. Kotis III Kotis Properties
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Marty Kotis; ...the city wants to make sure it gets city taxes if it is going to provide city services.

Look at the hundreds of annexation agreements. Forest Oaks, Cardinal, S Elm, etc.
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George Hartzman; How many of those agreements had claw back provisions?
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Marty Kotis; Do you think we should install a well for drinking water 2,000ft from the city's primary wastewater treatment system?
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George Hartzman; "we", meaning your property, is/was located in the county. "we", Greensboro's taxpayers just cut you a check for $312,000 for a property in the county.
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Marty Kotis; none of those guys had to pay to run their own water and sewer. You're missing the point, I'm not getting favorable treatment, I'm getting less than favorable treatment. How much did Forest Oaks residents pay to run their water and sewer?

Do you think Forest Oaks or Cardinal were in the city or county?
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George Hartzman; "I'm getting less than favorable treatment." than entire communities..., as you are one entity.

If it was a standard water and sewer deal, why are Andy Scott and former Greensboro Partnership lobbyist Kathi Dubel listed as contacts on the attachment?

Seems like you are comparing apples to oranges.

Were the Forest Oaks and Cardinal water and sewer projects considered "speculative", and if not, why?
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Marty Kotis; S. Elm commercial interchange, Jefferson Land, Horse Pen Creek, Bryan & New Garden - there are dozens of examples of commercial nodes receiving water and sewer and being annexed into the city.
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George Hartzman; "Kisco Senior Living [Jefferson Land] is committing to create 125 new jobs with an average salary of $30,600 and will include benefits valued at 30% of the salary."

Kisco gets $1 million via Robbie Perkins, ...but the deal was for $8,000 per job...

Marty gets $312,000 for 7 jobs, which comes out to $44,571 per job.

I guess Marty got a "special exception" as well, especially for such low paying jobs;.
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"Greensboro will give Gerbing $6,000 for each job it plans to create instead of the $1,000 per job offered under Greensboro’s incentive policy guidelines.

City of Greensboro incentives are usually only provided after the company creates the jobs.

The jobs would include sales, marketing and design positions that would pay an average of $45,000 a year, according to the city.

The council was scheduled to consider making changes to its incentives policy to allow for the type of agreement it made with Gerbing.

Instead, council members made a special exception to their policy for this one company, to provide more incentive money and pay it sooner than it typically would for an incentive."

http://www.news-record.com/news/local_news/article_c1d54250-fe48-11e2-b8d4-001a4bcf6878.html?mode=jqm
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Marty Kotis; "George - consider this a warning.

You're going to kick the hornets nest one too many times.

You start attacking my friends and I'll go on the offensive."
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George Hartzman; The extra tax money only shows up if you get the development and the highway Marty. That's why the city called the deal "speculative". If the highway does come, you will be in line for the development in front of everyone else from buying our elected officials and having Jeff Nimmer on multiple boards.

Jim Kee appointing [Kotis employee] Jeff Nimmer to the Board of Adjustments

He currently serves as the District 3 representative on the Greensboro Minimum Housing Standards Commission, a Council Member of SynerG, ...and is on the Executive Board of the Westerwood Neighborhood Association.

http://hartzman.blogspot.com/2013/08/jim-kee-appointing-jeff-nimmer-to-board.html

We just gave you $312,000 for a $1.1 million property. What's it worth now?
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Marty Kotis; George - what jobs have you created? What charities have you supported? What have you done for anyone other than yourself in this city?
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George Hartzman; "Rentier Capitalism"

"Rentier capitalism ...refers to a type of capitalism
where a large amount of profit-income generated
takes the form of property income, received as interest,
intellectual property rights, rents, dividends, fees, or capital gains.

The beneficiaries of this income are a property-owning social class who,
it is argued, play no productive role in the economy themselves
but who monopolize the access to physical assets,
financial assets, and technologies.

They make money not from producing anything new themselves,
but purely from their ownership of property
(which provides a claim to a revenue stream)
and dealing in that property.

Often the term rentier capitalism is used with the connotation
that it is a form of parasitism or a decadent form of capitalism."

Wiki
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"Kotis billboard promotes Johnson, Wilkins, Vaughan, Lawyer"

http://www.news-record.com/blogs/killian_lehmert_the_inside_scoop/article_e6891566-1704-11e3-bb5e-0019bb30f31a.html
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Don Moore; The City Council is in love with developers because they have Campaign Cash.